Are you afraid of rejection and failure? Do you wish you had the tools to overcome your fears and lead your best possible life EVERYDAY? Join Jennifer Cohen (Fitness Personality, Author and body image consultant) and Eric Partaker as they discuss tips on how you can reach your full potential and win at life!
KEY POINTS
Get Fit, Don’t Quit! – Exercise gives you energy, and increases your productivity. Exercise first thing every morning, Make it a habit! Beginning your day with exercise increases your ability to stay on track for the remainder of the day.
Happiness Consists Of Getting Enough Sleep! – A lack of sleep causes reduced cognitive abilities and poor focus. Get enough sleep. This will elevate your hormones and improve your mood.
Rejection And Failure Are The First Steps To Success – Are you afraid of rejection and failure? Block out other people’s opinions and perceptions and focus on you. Don’t give up! Every rejection or failure is a lesson learned on your journey to success.
Do It Anyway! – If you are bad at something, or it makes you uncomfortable, embrace it. The only way to overcome fears and progress is to do it over and over again until it becomes benign and comfortable.
Self Awareness Is Power – Be very aware of yourself. Take time to work out exactly what interests you and what you excel at. If you focus your work and life around that success will be the by-product!
Lead By Example – The most effective way to teach others is by showing them the fruit of your labor.
Hold Yourself Accountable – Keep track of your goals and hold yourself accountable for your mistakes. It is an important tool for building habits and progressing. If you have no data, progression becomes difficult.
Practice = Progress – To improve you must practice. Consistency and practice will take you from novice to expert.
TRANSCRIPT
Jennifer Cohen:
At this point in my life, I mean, I’m not exercising to be physically a certain way anymore. I want to maintain what I have, but it really is for the mental aspects. For people who are just starting, a really good thing is to say to themselves, “I’m just going to do five minutes.” Because it’s really the first five minutes is the hardest part to get started. It’s that motivation to really kick into gear, almost 10 out of 10 times. Once people do that five minutes, it progresses into a longer workout and I built an entire company around this.
Eric Partaker:
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of The 2%, whereas always we’re having awesome conversation with peak performers in all walks of life. Why? To help to decode excellence, help give you strategies, tips, tools, techniques that you can use to hopefully break free from the 98% and join the 2% of people estimated to be operating at their full potential, and I’m super excited to have Jennifer Cohen on the show today. Woo, Jennifer.
Jennifer Cohen:
Wow. I love that. That’s quite an intro Eric. Thank you for having me. I wish everybody would give me that woo woo, when I came on their podcast or interview, so thank you.
Eric Partaker:
No problem. So you’ve got tons of amazing experience and accolades and that one actually getting weaved in as we talk here, but some right off the bat that are worth mentioning, you’re a best selling author. You’ve written one book already. You have another coming, right?
Jennifer Cohen:
I’ve written three books already.
Eric Partaker:
Three books already.
Jennifer Cohen:
I see you did your research. It’s okay, I’m just kidding. But great research there. No, I’ve written three books all in the health and wellness, health and diet, health and exercise area. My last one was called Bad Ass Body Goals, but my newest book, it’s how … I don’t know if you know or if people are familiar, but when you have a book deal and you’re working with a publisher, you write a book and it doesn’t even come out for a year or year and a half. So I just penned my deal and it would be coming up in a year and a half. And it’s going to be more on asking for what you want in life and behavioral change. So more like mental stuff. Both being bold, going after things that you want and how to do it.
Eric Partaker:
Cool. So what do you want in life?
Jennifer Cohen:
What am I what?
Eric Partaker:
What do you want in life?
Jennifer Cohen:
What do I want in life? Well, its an ever changing thing. I think you have different goals in different areas of your life. You have personal goals. You have professional goals and once you hit that mark, that benchmark, then you can go for the next thing. So currently what now, I’m in the situation where what I want, I want to be around people and pick projects where I really enjoy the people. I want to grow this new business that I just started with. I’m trying to grow that business. What do I want? I want my kids to be very happy and very healthy, and that’s an evergreen thing. So there’s lots of different things I want and it’s about putting your … I guess, aligning your life so those things can actually be achievable, I guess, right?
Eric Partaker:
Right. And I know some of the things that you are obsessed with include building healthy habits to drive positive behavioral change. And you have a couple of nice … You’re named 100 most influential people in health and fitness, and most impactful fitness entrepreneurs. Made both of those lists. So what drove that? Why all these special recognitions?
Jennifer Cohen:
Are you reading my bio?
Eric Partaker:
[inaudible].
Jennifer Cohen:
Yeah, I mean, listen I think those lists are fun and fine and all that stuff, but at the end of the day I think that I always followed what my passion was. I think it’s really important for people to get to know themselves first, very, very well. And then after you do that, figure out, because I think number one, people are … When you’re not self-aware, you start chasing and going after things that are maybe really far off from the point. But when you know yourself really well and you have something that you’re truly interested and that you know you’re good at or you’re interested in getting better at, I think success is the byproduct. So you have to start with knowing what your good at, knowing who you are, knowing yourself really well and leading with a passion. And leading what actually your strengths are.
And so those lists are just again a byproduct of me always just being true to myself and following what those things are. I’ve always been super interested and super passionate about fitness and health. And I built my career around it, not by on purpose … It was by accident in a way and then it became on purpose.
Eric Partaker:
[crosstalk]. What drives that? Why have you always been passionate about fitness and health? Where does that come from?
Jennifer Cohen:
I think it helped shift and change my own mental strength. I think when I was younger I was a little bit … I just don’t think that I was … I was flailing, like everybody else when you’re younger and you’re trying to figure out what you like, what you don’t like. I’m talking like in my late teens. And then I started to exercise and workout and I noticed as I got stronger physically, it made me stronger mentally and I got really addicted to those endorphins and that feeling and where it became something that I really built into my daily routine and my habits very early on. So fitness for me really teaches you … taught me goals setting. It taught me once you hit a certain place, to pass another place you’ve got to hit bench marks. It taught me discipline.
So for me, I have a very strong relationship with fitness. When I went to school, my first job was at a sports team and then a record label. I only went into fitness when I was working for a label. I was head of marketing for a very big label and I got to Los Angeles from a job I was doing in Canada, where I’m from, and the music world was shifting and changing and it was all about the .com world and that’s when I thought to myself, “You know what, what I really love is fitness. Is health.” So I quit my job and I actually became a personal trainer, just because that’s what I like to do and what I did then was once I got my first certification, I thought of how I can use my network, who I had and I created a job for myself as a label trainer.
So I went back to the record labels I had relationships with and basically pitched myself as someone who of course understood how the marketing works and basically pitched myself as a trainer for the talent before they go on to do the tour or before they do a music video or whatever they were doing. So it was me taking my love and my passion and marrying it with my network already and my resourcefulness and that was the beginning of my fitness journey, my fitness career. And that evolved into different books and different products and then I had an app. I sold the app to Weight Watchers. There’s been a lot of different milestones in that space that-
Eric Partaker:
Well hang on. You just casually like, “Oh and then I had an app and then I sold it to Weight Watchers.”
Jennifer Cohen:
Well, I’m trying to paint a picture. And be like, “Oh yeah, I had an app and it got acquired.” But I guess the over arching point is that I took something that I was super, super interested in and passionate about and I just built on that into an actual business, or businesses. So when people ask me what I do I say, “I’m an entrepreneur.” People are like, “Well what do you do in the fitness basin?” I say, “I love business, but I also love fitness.” And the two can go, you can marry more than one thing. You can be good at more than one thing. You can have passion for more than one thing. I think it’s really dangerous when A, you compartmentalize what … just because I like fitness doesn’t mean I’m not going to be good in this thing. Just because I like sailing doesn’t mean I’ll be bad at this. It’s really figuring out what you’re good at and then figuring out how they all can marry together and be a career. So I took my [inaudible]-
Eric Partaker:
Nice.
Jennifer Cohen:
… that’s basically.
Eric Partaker:
All right. So you just mentioned sailing. And before we hit record you were talking about this. So I was talking about the whole, the background of the show rooted in Abraham Maslow’s estimate that … Well, in his research that our path to deepest fulfillment lies in reaching our full potential, but he estimated only 2% of people ever achieve that meaning a lot of people kind of die with a lot of stuff still on the table. But you were going to tell me about some sailboat thing and so forth.
Jennifer Cohen:
Oh yeah, just some sailboat. Well no, because you were telling me about this 2%. I asked you why you named it that and I thought it’s very coincidental because yesterday I was watching somebody whose whole business was based around … they’re a psychologist and they based their entire learnings and career and philosophy around Maslow and they had something called the sailboat theory. It was kind of from Maslow and I was thinking what is it? And I didn’t really remember it because then what you didn’t hear me say, because then you’re like, “Wait until we press record.” Because my kid was yelling at me and I couldn’t read what the sailboat theory was. So I wanted to know what that was and so I thought since you were a fan of Maslow obviously too, maybe you knew what that was. But now that you’ve brought it up let me see if I can find it, because-
Eric Partaker:
I love that. Saved that whole little conversation from going absolutely nowhere.
Jennifer Cohen:
… Yeah, well listen I saved it all. You didn’t let me finish because you’re like, “Wait. Wait.” And I’m like, “Well, when he finds out that I’ve nothing to say about it.” But-
Eric Partaker:
Yeah. No, okay.
Jennifer Cohen:
… now everybody knows I know nothing. But it’s a whole thing here. I can read it. Can I read it to you or-
Eric Partaker:
Yeah. Go for it.
Jennifer Cohen:
… Well, it’s pretty long. It’s basically talking about one of the first things you need to know is when … Oh wait, this is about sailing. Hold on a minute. The sailboat theory by … let me see. It’s about motivation really. But it’s a sailboat metaphor. Okay, so it’s on Scott Barry Kaufman, I think is his name, website. But it’s really long. I don’t think you want me to read this whole thing.
Eric Partaker:
We’ll shortcut it for people. So the short of it is that if you want to reach your full potential and stay motivated, you should buy a sailboat, right?
Jennifer Cohen:
Is that what it is?
Eric Partaker:
I have no idea.
Jennifer Cohen:
No. Not at all. But how about this, they can Google it and see what it’s about. But it’s about motivation and how to self-actualize and all these other things that you were talking about. So if there’s any homework, the homework really for you Eric to know more about what Maslow is about.
Eric Partaker:
Awesome. What’s the next book? The next book is coming up. What’s that going to be teaching people?
Jennifer Cohen:
No. That book is much more about asking for what you want. The behavioral changes, because in all of my work, and things have evolved. I came from the health and wellness space at that point, but then my career morphed into more high performance in all walks of life and CEOs of companies. And the bottom line is that at the end of the day what holds people back is usually self-doubt. Self-doubt is the killer to anybody’s dreams. So it’s like how do you really over come self-doubt to chase what you want and not just take what you get? And not just take the good enough. And so I did a TED Talk on this whole topic that did quite well and people obviously … it struck a cord with a lot of people and now I’m really just expanding on that entire notion, because I do believe that fear and self-doubt really is why there is only a 2% versus the 98% that don’t do their self-actualization.
And it’s sad, because I think that we all have something within us that is special and that it makes us a superstar. And it’s really about finding what it is or tapping into what that is and exploiting it and really going after it. And that, when you don’t do it, the alternative is actually there’s always a sense of regret. There’s always a sense of malaise or disappointment. And we only live once, so we might as well live at our fullest, optimize what we have and that’s what the entire premise is. The entire philosophy that I try to live by and I’m really digging into the research now more, so there’s a science based. So when I explain a lot of this stuff, that I have things to truly back it up. And so you know.
Eric Partaker:
Do you have a title yet for the book?
Jennifer Cohen:
I’m not quite sure yet. It’s going to talk about being bold for sure, because I think my entire theory again, is about the idea and the philosophy behind repetition and about practice. Like anything else in life, anything you want to get good at you have to practice. It’s a skill. So if you want to be bold or if you want to take French lessons, it’s the same thing. It’s the same concept, which is you have to practice to get better. And consistency and practice really take you from here to there. Even Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, I mean, when they practice 10,000 plus, plus, plus hours by doing the most basic thing. They’re not practicing crazy fancy drills. They’re basically practicing just throwing the ball in the net over and over and over again.
Eric Partaker:
That’s just cool. I can’t remember what book it was, but there’s a book about Kobe where there’s the story of the author goes that like, the author had asked Kobe, “Hey, can I come around and watch you shoot or do some practice?” And he’s like, “Yeah, sure no problem. I’ll see you at 3:30 or something.” And he’s like, “3:30 in the afternoon?” And he’s like, “No, no, 3:30 in the morning.” And so the author gets there, watched Kobe practice and for like, I don’t know it was three hours or something he’s doing the most basic stuff like shooting free throws and then doing layups and then doing three pointers and doing post moves. And it’s just all this basic stuff. And the author asked him, he was like, “I don’t get it. How the hell have you become the best guy in the game doing such basic fundamental things?” And Kobe’s answer was, “Well how the hell do you think I became the best player in the game? By doing the fundamental things.”
Jennifer Cohen:
Exactly.
Eric Partaker:
So it’s like so many things that you talk about there, fundamentals, the consistency, the discipline. And I love two words that I really latched onto when you were speaking about your new book, you talked about fear, but essentially the converse of that. You’re talking about becoming fearless and then that relates to bold. And for years, I had these three words I just had on the wall and I had two different sets of them and I practiced, tried both out. And one was fast, focused, fearless, and I just looked at that every day. Be fast, focused, fearless. And then the other set I had was fast, focused, bold. So all I’m saying is giving you massive props for those words this book, this subject matter, because it is absolutely the number one thing I think that holds people back.
Jennifer Cohen:
Yeah. Thank you, I appreciate that. No, and I do believe it. It comes down to the most basic basic things. People are trying to over complicate things that don’t really need to be complicated and it’s the simple things. Like at the end of the day if your foundation is strong then that’s when you can actually build something that’s strong on top of it and more and more and more. If your foundation is weak, that can be towards Kobe Bryant when he practices his basic moves or me when I’m trying to get better at self-doubt or fear or wherever. You need to master the basics first and sometimes people forget that. It’s like now, in everything in life, everything becomes very fad driven. Very driven on like for diets. Like, “I’m going to do the Keto diet. I’m going to do this thing.” When really it’s like people are looking for something that sometimes is not necessary. What about just eating a balance healthy meal and not having to restrict and do all those things. But people don’t realize that there’s a lot of success in just following some basic rules of life.
Eric Partaker:
Or just like any plan at all, because I could like you were just saying, I could research and come up with 10 different ways to get in shape and change my eating. I could come up with 10 different ways to improve my I don’t know, productivity and work routine. 10 different ways to be a better father and husband. But, probably the simplest thing to do would just be pick one thing and just adhere to it, right?
Jennifer Cohen:
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and just basically do it over and over and over again and get really, really good, and really, really comfortable in it and build that into a routine for consistency. And that’s basically, that’s the beginning and the end of all of it. And what the problem sometimes can be when you are doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that you’re all over the place, you end up doing everything half ass and not very good at anything. So it’s about sometimes just picking one thing and being really focused and diligent and deliberate and then from that, then you can move on.
Eric Partaker:
So you’re very focused on building these healthy habits and we talk about having a foundation in place from what you can build further things from. Not all habits are created equal. What are the power habits in your mind? So like the person who is listening right now and is like, “Oh my God, there’s just so much that I could be doing, but that I’m not doing to start improving my health. I don’t even know where to start.” What are the power moves to make? What are the fundamentals?
Jennifer Cohen:
Okay, some fundamentals, I think a couple of things. I think number one, keeping yourself accountable number one. That’s just so, write down what you’re doing in progress, because I think sometimes we … I see that you’re actually by the way, wearing an Oura Ring. I think I am too right? And the data, it keeps all your data, it’s a sleep tracker. I’m a big fan and believe me, I don’t work with them or whatever, but the guy just came on my podcast, the guy who’s CEO. So I think, that’s why I was just making a mention of it. But what I was going to say is, keeping track and being accountable is super, super important for building habits and seeing yourself progress, or seeing where you are and what to do. Because I think when you have no data it becomes very willy-nilly.
It doesn’t have to be the Oura Ring, but I think that some power habits are, exercise daily. I think exercise first thing in the morning is one of the best habits someone can get into. And I’ll tell you why. Because number one, if you start your day off well and doing something for yourself, that’s really good, it’s more likely to keep you on point for the rest of the day. It also gives you the energy. It makes you more productive. People think, “Oh, I’m too tired to workout.” But actually the jolt of energy and endorphins and serotonin and all the different mood enhancers, you will benefit in threefold through the day. Number two, for the cognitive and focus and all these alert stuff too. That’s the first habit.
Another habit actually is sleeping enough. I think it’s the cheapest magic pill that you can get and it’s free and it’s basically on par with exercise for me. Because again, if you don’t sleep properly, then everything else is off. You end up again, your hormones are not elevated well. Your mood’s off. Your focus, your cognitive abilities are off. You end up eating more. Everything that people are trying to stay on point for, becomes derailed. So having enough sleep, now what’s enough for your verses me is very different. But that is why again, why having some kind of accountability and trackability is super important.
And I want to say number three is back to accountability, is writing down your to-do list and so when you do something you check it off the list. Because it’s very empowering when you actually accomplish something and then you cross it off that list and then move on to the next thing. And again, it gives you that accountability. It’s a visual of what you need to do, so you’re staying on point. Those are three easy ones that people can implement tomorrow. Now when it comes to working out, people are like, “Oh dah, dah, dah.” I’m not saying you need to do a crazy hour intense run, but move your body for a good 15 or 20 minutes. That’s enough to get that activated and that can be anything. Going for a walk. It doesn’t matter. It’s just the fact that you’re moving your body, you’re doing things for yourself. That’s really helpful. So those are three. I can give you 100 more if you like, but.
Eric Partaker:
Keep going. No. No. Cool. So yeah, I just wanted some cool threads that you had. So that whole positive mood boost, I’ve gotten to the point … So I have tons of injuries. I have literally torn ligaments in both my ankles.
Jennifer Cohen:
In both your what?
Eric Partaker:
Both my ankles. And cartilage damage in my left knee. I ripped the ligament off the humeral head in the left shoulder, had to have them reattached. Back, the vertebrae.
Jennifer Cohen:
Were you an athlete? Were you a professional athlete at some point?
Eric Partaker:
Yeah, I wish. No, no, no. I was, no, I was mediocre when it came to sports. It was like sick.
Jennifer Cohen:
Oh, where are all the injuries from? Just-
Eric Partaker:
So I have a genetic predisposition. I have bad collagen basically. My collagen injures easily and when it injures it doesn’t repair well.
Jennifer Cohen:
Oh.
Eric Partaker:
The reason I’m bringing this up is because for me, I have to live with a lot of pain all the time. It’s like right now, as I’m talking to you right now my left knee is flared up. I’ve been icing it all day. But it’s just, I’ve gotten used to it. So the positive mood effect of exercise, I think it’s so important and for me exercise is almost medicinal. I’m not going to the gym because I want to look a certain way or land a shot in Baywatch Five. Is there a Baywatch Five? I have no idea.
Jennifer Cohen:
I don’t think there is, but I get what you’re trying to say. You’re not trying to be a fitness model.
Eric Partaker:
Yeah. Which I think you are, aren’t you? Aren’t you a fitness model?
Jennifer Cohen:
No. My god, I mean I appreciate that, but why would you think I was? That’s not in my bio.
Eric Partaker:
I think I saw something in there. Or maybe it was just the Instagram feed. Anyway-
Jennifer Cohen:
I think it’s the fact that maybe when I was much younger, I did a lot of endorsements and spokesperson work for people. But I would never tout myself as a fitness model. But, I’m going to take that anyway and run with it. I’m going to put that in my bio.
Eric Partaker:
Yeah, fitness model. Well, yeah, I’m going to put that I used to be a professional athlete.
Jennifer Cohen:
Yeah, right. We’re making up our own reality now, it’s perfect. I love it.
Eric Partaker:
Yeah. Exactly. No, but what the point I’m trying to make for the benefit of people listening is that exercise is so powerful that you don’t need to want to look a certain way. You could simply want to be happier, feel better about yourself, have this positive influx of hormones like you’re saying. And it becomes in a way like you antidepressant. I mean, even on days when I’m feeling in a complete funk and I’m down and in a bad mood, I actually know that, “Oh my gosh, if I just go and workout right now, that’s going to solve everything.” Right?
Jennifer Cohen:
100%. I agree.
Eric Partaker:
Totally, because 90% of your psychology is driven by physiology. At least that’s what I believe.
Jennifer Cohen:
And by the way it’s not just what you believe, there’s a ton of research. I mean, I could not agree with you more. At this point in my life, I’m not exercising to be physically a certain way anymore. I want to maintain what I have, but it really is for the mental aspects. And I actually always say what you just said which is, exercise is a natural antidepressant. So if it’s the best mood basically balancer or enhancer that there is bar none. It beats out anything else. And I know people actually who’ve gone off of antidepressants when they’ve incorporated working out into their life daily.
I know even for myself, that if I … I’m a very ADD kind of person. I want to this. Shinny ball there. I’m very much like that and end up if I don’t work out, I’m not properly focused. It is the amount of health benefits, mental benefits, mental health benefits you get from exercise, is so amazing that I feel like people just need to get off over that initial uh hump, and then once they start doing at enough of a regular, regularly, it naturally becomes part of their routine because you get addicted to that feeling.
Eric Partaker:
How do you get over that initial hump? How do you get the ball-
Jennifer Cohen:
I think repetition. I think that you have to … Again, I hate to say it, but like anything else, I think what happens is you practice anything else, you do it, you don’t like it. You do it, “Uh, I kind of don’t feel like it.” You do that enough where eventually there’s a little bit of a pivot or that tipping point where it’s just like, “Okay, I may not like it, but I love the after effects of what happens.” I know now if I do it, to your point, how I’m going to feel after. So that’s good enough for me to even do it. I also think for people who are just starting, a really good thing is to say to themselves, I’m just going to do five minutes. Because it’s really the first five minutes is the hardest part to get started.
It’s that motivation to really kick into gear. Nine out of 10 times, almost 10 out of 10 times, once people do that five minutes, it progresses into a longer workout. And I built an entire company around this, because the hardest part is putting on your clothes, putting on your shoes and doing that first few steps. Once you do that, you know what I mean? You’re like “Well, I’m already here. I’ve already put my shoes on. I already did this part, I might as well keep on going.” And we were talking about that app, my fitness app, it was called Hot Five, five minute workouts.
Eric Partaker:
Nice. This is like when you were talking I was just like, “Oh my God.” So I wrote a book called The Three Alarms and in there-
Jennifer Cohen:
What was it called?
Eric Partaker:
… The Three Alarms and-
Jennifer Cohen:
Oh, The Three Alarms. Okay.
Eric Partaker:
… and I write, I have a whole productivity section in there and I talk about overcoming procrastination and I talk about how procrastination is just a coping mechanism. It’s resistance. And usually the resistance … Well part of the resistance is created because you’re sitting there and the phrase in your mind is, “I have to finish.” And that’s overwhelming, because I have to is like you’re being forced to do something you don’t want to do and finish is completely endless. And so what I always say is, “I choose,” because you can choose to do something you don’t even want to do, so choose. “I choose to start for just five minutes.” So I use that exact same thing. And I always tell people when the 300th second has passed.
Jennifer Cohen:
Right.
Eric Partaker:
You just get lost into what you’re doing, right?
Jennifer Cohen:
Exactly. Exactly. I mean, but it’s all psychological mind tricks that you do. It’s really it is. It’s like, “How do I psychologically make me get myself to do this for a little bit? Or what’s the tick and tip, what kind of mind trick can I do to make me get from here to here?” It’s like the incremental amount is the hardest amount to do something.
Eric Partaker:
So going back to habits, why do you think people struggle to even get the habits of like you talked about fear for example? Fear and not wanting to be bold.
Jennifer Cohen:
Self-doubt. Self-doubt.
Eric Partaker:
Yeah, sorry. Yeah, fear and self-doubt. What are people afraid of?
Jennifer Cohen:
I think people are afraid of rejection. I think people are afraid of rejection and failure. I think that we have so much baggage that we’re carrying around with ourselves from when we were younger about kids making fun of us if we don’t … I said, “Do you remember when you were a baby or” … Not you remember, but when babies in general they’ll do whatever. They don’t care if people are looking at them. They don’t care if they spit up or they burp. They’re like, “whatever.” They just go on with their day, you know what I mean? They’re like, “Ha ha.” They’re oblivious. And then as we get older, we get so paranoid and uncomfortable or intimidated by what other people think of us, that then drives our behavior moving forward. We don’t want to look stupid. We don’t want to look dumb. We don’t want to look ugly. It’s all but about other people’s perception.
Now if we can figure out a way to not allow other people’s perception to infiltrate us to that point, or block out other people’s opinions and perceptions or whatever, and just focus on us, what we’re doing yourself and moving forward, passing this thing. Doing that. It’s so, not only is it empowering, but it’s so helpful to someone’s overall happiness and success. People don’t go to the gym because they don’t want to look stupid and they don’t want to look feeble. They don’t want other people to see them not be able to do something well. In what world? Why does everyone have to be perfect or great at something for them not to feel uncomfortable even to try even the attempt?
Eric Partaker:
And here’s the funny thing I discovered is that people don’t really care that much.
Jennifer Cohen:
People don’t, and that’s the irony. People are so concerned with themselves and what they’re doing, that they’re not even paying attention. They’re not even noticing you 99% of the time.
Eric Partaker:
Yeah. Exactly.
Jennifer Cohen:
But it does, again, this is where the disconnect is. What you know to be true and what you know psychologically or you know is human nature and physiologically, doesn’t necessarily compute when it comes to yourself. And that’s where the rubber meets the road. That’s the part where you need to really focus on to make real change.
Eric Partaker:
What’s the biggest fear that you’ve stepped into in life?
Jennifer Cohen:
I think fear of failing and fear of looking stupid. I think those are two biggest ones. I don’t love public speaking. It’s uncomfortable for me. It-
Eric Partaker:
It’s says you’re an international speaker in your bio.
Jennifer Cohen:
100%. It doesn’t mean that I don’t do it. And if you would let me finish, sailboat, you would hear what I was going to say. Okay. Okay, so just because you are bad at something or uncomfortable with doing something, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it. That’s the only way to overcome something is to yet again, do it over and over again, until it becomes benign and comfortable. So I did this again, I did a Ted Talk and a big portion of this philosophy about getting over the self-doubt, getting over the fear, is it’s called the 10% target. And the idea behind it is that you make 10 attempts at whatever you want most in life. You may not get that exact thing, but another opportunity will present itself that you never even knew existed by just putting yourself out there. And so with me doing that Ted Talk actually was me putting myself out there in a situation that wasn’t very comfortable for me.
I get asked to speak at places. I get a lot of anxiety from it. I don’t love it, but every time I know that if I do it again, I’ll get that much better at it, because practice makes progress. And on top of that, it will help eliminate my fear just that much more, because what’s the worst thing that can happen? Some people don’t like it. What’s the worst? So the only way to get past something is to go through it a little bit. So do I do a lot of speaking? I do a fair amount, and it’s because I don’t like it and it’s because I’m bad at it or I’m bad at it in the sense that I’m uncomfortable with it and I’m scared for it, is why I keep on doing it. Because I want to also practice what I preach to other people. I can’t tell you to do that or whatever you’re trying to do and then on my own, in my own life just avoid it and not do it, even though I know, you know what I mean? How to make it better.
Eric Partaker:
But you’re training your professional muscles in the same way conceptually as you train your physical muscles. So you go into the gym and you’re not like, “Show me the most comfortable weights.” Right?
Jennifer Cohen:
Right.
Eric Partaker:
You step into the challenging exercises. The stress builds strength. You get stronger as a result. So I guess that’s what you’re doing every time you step out on stage you’re lifting that professional speaker dumbbell and getting stronger.
Jennifer Cohen:
Exactly. For all intents and purposes, the truth is, yeah, you are. I mean, that is. I mean, I go to the gym all the time and I phone it in a lot these days, because I just do what I’m comfortable with because it’s easy. And then there are times when I catch myself and I’m like, “Wait, wait, wait. That’s why I’m plateauing. That’s why I’m not growing. That’s why I’m not getting anywhere is because I’m not pushing beyond what my comfort zone is.” I mean the reality is in life and in your professional life, your personal life, in your spiritual growth, everything requires growth and movement, or else it just dies. Or just like I said, it’s just plateauing and it’s just status quo, you might as well, why continue? It just becomes boring. So you need to be able to push those boundaries as you hit them in every area of your life.
Eric Partaker:
If you had to pick one song that describes your life, what would you pick?
Jennifer Cohen:
How about I’m a survivor by Destiny’s Child. Independent Woman by Destiny’s Child.
Eric Partaker:
Nice.
Jennifer Cohen:
I like Demi Lovato’s song Confident. I like that song because I think it makes me feel like I can go through anything, and I like that. I’m going to pick her. That’s the song I’m going with.
Eric Partaker:
Awesome. Awesome. All right. So you’ve got three other people at home, right? You’ve got your husband and-
Jennifer Cohen:
I’ve got my husband. I’ve got my two kids. Yeah.
Eric Partaker:
So let’s say somebody is there health wise, entrepreneur wise, spirit wise, how do you get the rest of the household onboard? What do you do? What do you to encourage this way of thinking, this way of being in your other half, in the young ones? Anything that you can share there?
Jennifer Cohen:
I think the best way to do that and not with me, with anybody, is to lead by example. I think when you just tell somebody over and over again what they … You should do this. Do that. Do that. It falls on deaf ears. I think the most effective is when they see you doing something and then they want to be involved when they see the fruits of that labor. I think that’s the best way. Lead by example. That’s when you’re running a company, running a household. Running anything, a softball team for your child. Lead by example.
You should show people how what you want them to do by you doing it yourself and that’s why I said to you earlier about the whole idea of if I’m not a good speaker and I just say screw it, I’m not going to do it, how do I go and tell everyone else to make 10 attempts at going through their biggest fear and just keep ongoing, when I won’t do it myself? You’ve got to mean what you say and you’ve got to do what you say. You know what I mean, and say what you do. Whatever that saying. What is that saying, Eric? It’s like, I think someone’s intention and word is really, really important and you’ve got to lead by that example and you’ve got to live by that example.
Eric Partaker:
Yeah, totally. I was talking about growing up the other day and I said, “Growing up is not about reaching a certain age, it’s about not expecting others to do things that you don’t role model and do yourself.” Right?
Jennifer Cohen:
Right.
Eric Partaker:
And that applies to absolutely everything from parenting to your health to work. What do you believe that others don’t?
Jennifer Cohen:
Well I don’t know what everybody believes, because how would I know? I don’t know what you believe. Well actually I think a lot of things that I believe are one of those things that they are quite universal. I believe that people need other people to be successful in life. I think things are not done in a vacuum. I believe that having one good friend is more important and more valuable than having a bunch of randos around you who don’t mean anything. I think what I believe is whatever you know is your … I believe that people should follow what they know is true for themselves. I really do believe that. And not just follow the herd. I think what happens a lot now, people just follow along without questioning what’s going on. I think independent thinking is really, really important and I think that people should exercise it as much as possible. What do I believe? There’s a lot of things. This is like, that’s a big question. Can you hone it down a little?
Eric Partaker:
I mean, I love what you said about, “I believe that people should really follow what’s true for them.” Because so often, a lot of what we were talking about certainly relates to self-doubt and the fears that people are thinking too much from other people’s perspectives and not enough from their own.
Jennifer Cohen:
From their own.
Eric Partaker:
And like we were saying earlier, so worried about what they think about what I’m doing and they don’t even care. It doesn’t even matter.
Jennifer Cohen:
You know what I also believe? I believe that being super smart is detrimental. I think that being too smart is a hindrance on someone’s ability to thrive. I think there’s a beauty in mediocrity, because it forces people a lot of times to have to be resourceful and go after things and grow as a person. Sometimes when you’re so smart or you get everything handed to you, it diminishes the quality of character that you have because it was so easy. And I also think when you’re too smart, McKenzie, that you’re so much about strategy and solution that there’s a lot lost in nuance and hustle.
Eric Partaker:
He’s 16 now, but must have been 14 or so, my oldest son, when he was asking me about … No, he was talking about how certain kids in the class were … “No, they’re way smarter than me,” he said. And I was like, “Alex, you’re always going to be meeting people way smarter than you, but there’s no way they can out work you.” And that’s the way to do it. So Jennifer, I really loved chatting with you. So many cool ideas. Very excited about the new book coming. I wish we had the title so we could share it.
Jennifer Cohen:
Well, it’s just happening. I didn’t realize this happened so fast. I’ll come back, we can talk again in a year when it’s out.
Eric Partaker:
Awesome. So you’ve got your own podcast as well, right?
Jennifer Cohen:
Yep.
Eric Partaker:
So if people want to hear more from you or get in touch, how do they do that?
Jennifer Cohen:
Well my podcast is called Habits and Hustle. You can see the crooked sign behind me. I think it just got moved. And you can follow me on Instagram at the Real Jen Cohen. I’m on LinkedIn, I think it’s just my name, Jennifer Cohen. And I think that’s good.
Eric Partaker:
Awesome. Jennifer-
Jennifer Cohen:
My website.
Eric Partaker:
… Jennifercohen.com?
Jennifer Cohen:
Yes. Jenny Cohen to you.
Eric Partaker:
Yeah. Awesome. Jennifer, thanks so much. Really appreciate you coming on the show and-
Jennifer Cohen:
Absolutely.
Eric Partaker:
… Yeah, look forward to talking about your book in a years time.
Jennifer Cohen:
Thank you so much.
Eric Partaker:
Cool. All right. See you soon.
